[14:00:57] [connected at Thu Feb 11 14:00:57 2021]
[14:00:57] [I have joined #xf-bod]
[14:01:17] <Lyude> On today's agenda we have: X.org/freedesktop.org domain status, requesting ledger data (with updates!), XDC2020 invoices status, cloud hosting for freedesktop.org, XDC2021, XDC2022, HDMI 2.1, elections, and GSoC
[14:01:26] <Lyude> If I'm missing anything, please feel free to let me know
[14:01:56] <Lyude> I can start with the items on my side:
[14:02:07] <Lyude> Requesting ledger data: I joined the SPI meeting on Feb 8th and was finally able to get a response - there haven't been any updates since January so Stephen Frost is going to start looking into it, and wants to be cc'd on the issue from now on to make sure it moves forward.
[14:02:23] <danvet_> hi all
[14:02:58] <danvet_> Lyude, we need to heap absolute piles of praise on bentiss and daniels for the successful gitlab.fd.o migration to packet.com servers
[14:03:06] <Lyude> danvet_: yep! was just about to get to that :)
[14:03:17] <Lyude> freedesktop.org cloud hosting: From bentiss's report: The switch to packet was successful, there were some hiccups in regards to uptime along the way but that should be fixed now. There's still some work remaining, the last thing bentiss was up to was kicking out the useless pods on GKE and turning off one VM. This should end up freeing up around ~$1000/month just by switching to a
[14:03:19] <Lyude> single VM. The next tough part is going to be migrating gitlab pages to the new cluster, as bentiss does not want to port a container that uses 50GB of ram just for pages.
[14:03:33] <hwentlan> hi, sorry i'm late
[14:03:36] <Lyude> The final bit worth mentioning is that unfortunately, bentiss did have to revert caching of the container registry. They're going to try to figure out another way of making that work again over the next few weeks.
[14:03:40] <Lyude> hwentlan: np
[14:03:59] <Lyude> anyway, thanks to bentiss for all of their hard work with this!
[14:04:38] <Lyude> hwentlan: do you want to go next on the HDMI 2.1 stuff?
[14:04:48] <hwentlan> sure
[14:04:53] <danvet_> Lyude, I think for when this all settles we should set up a chat with packet.com again to check in whether they're still fine with us
[14:04:57] <hwentlan> i'm still waiting for any feedback to the proposed email
[14:04:58] <danvet_> maybe mfilion can set that up then
[14:05:07] <Lyude> danvet_: makes sense to me
[14:05:17] <hwentlan> if anyone has any time to take a look. would like at least a second opinion before sending it
[14:05:34] <Lyude> hwentlan: alright-I'll try to take a look at it today (sorry it's taken me a while, last few weeks have been unexpectedly busy at work)
[14:05:56] <hwentlan> no worries. i fully understand :)
[14:06:33] <Lyude> hwentlan: I guess next item would be elections (I'm leaving samueli g's stuff for later as they told me they'd be a bit late)
[14:06:35] <danvet_> hwentlan, just looked, I'm not seeing a draft anywhere from you?
[14:07:02] <hwentlan> "Proposed email to HDMI Forum about HDMI 2.1" sent to board@foundation.x.org on january 28
[14:08:01] <danvet_> uh that never arrived
[14:08:11] * keithp may have missed something, but do we have a hosting solution for mailing lists too?
[14:08:26] <danvet_> lol spam in gmail
[14:08:29] <hwentlan> hmm... wonder where it got stuck
[14:08:29] <Lyude> keithp: I'm not sure, I feel like simon was the one handling that
[14:08:44] <Lyude> danvet_: sigh-that makes sense... it'd be really nice to know why gmail keeps putting board stuff in spam
[14:08:45] <danvet_> keithp, still the same in portland
[14:08:49] <hwentlan> too many links in that email might have triggered the spam filter
[14:08:50] <keithp> I *think* that's the last thing that the PSU hosts are the only solution for
[14:09:09] <keithp> danvet_: ok, I haven' t missed anything, alas
[14:09:26] <danvet_> keithp, I did bring it up on #freedesktop cloud companies hate you for trying to run a mail amplifier of any size
[14:09:41] <danvet_> or at least that was daniels ' take
[14:09:42] <keithp> danvet_: yes, I know. Shocking, really!
[14:10:03] <danvet_> and because mailman, there's also no part we could move like the archives or whatever
[14:10:04] <keithp> you'd think some of them would at least have mailman-related policies
[14:10:12] <danvet_> and just leave the smtp amplifier on psu
[14:10:18] <hwentlan> will put the proposed email on the bod archives and send a new email referring people there. hopefully that won't trigger spam filters
[14:10:22] <keithp> 'set this mailman policy and you're good'
[14:11:45] <Lyude> wonder if adding the board email to our address books would help (could also add a filter for it in gmail probably)
[14:11:59] <danvet_> hwentlan, I checked nothing in your mail, but it reads well at least
[14:12:08] <danvet_> Lyude, I have a filter
[14:12:16] <danvet_> gmail's just going to gmail
[14:12:24] <Lyude> :\
[14:12:40] <tlwoerner> haha, even with a filter, gmail will often add a bar at the top of the email saying something along the lines of "this email should be in spam, but isn't because of a filter you created", lol
[14:12:53] <Lyude> google causing problems in open source once again, sigh <<
[14:12:57] <keithp> ah, members.x.org now shares gitlab credentials. nice!
[14:13:03] <samuelig> hi \o
[14:13:08] <Lyude> hey samuelig 
[14:13:18] <Lyude> hwentlan: btw - I'm ready for you to go over election stuff whenever you are
[14:13:18] <hwentlan> good to know it reads well. was worried it was too big and unwieldy, but i wanted to be somewhat specific
[14:13:33] <hwentlan> for elections we aligned on the schedule
[14:13:53] <hwentlan> i started a new 2021-2022 membership period and just sent an email before this meeting to remind people to renew their membership
[14:14:09] <hwentlan> my next job is to hunt for nominations
[14:14:25] <danvet_> uh where does that email end up as?
[14:15:08] <hwentlan> "2021 X.Org Foundation Membership renewal and election schedule" sent to members@x.org
[14:16:53] <danvet_> yeah not showing up, but I renewed
[14:16:55] * danvet_ shrugs
[14:17:12] <mdnavare> Hi everyone
[14:17:23] <Lyude> hey mdnavare 
[14:17:27] * hwentlan wonders if maybe amd.com looks like spam
[14:17:29] * anholt also here, been quiet
[14:17:38] <mfilion> o/
[14:17:41] <mfilion> sorry I'm late, again
[14:17:49] <Lyude> oh wow, that makes full attendance! :)
[14:17:50] <tlwoerner> hwentlan: i haven't received any such message :-(
[14:18:32] <mdnavare> hwentlan: I didnt recieve either
[14:19:00] <samuelig> hwentlan, it was blocked in the moderation queue
[14:19:01] <keithp> I got the message
[14:19:05] <samuelig> I approved the renewal email
[14:19:09] <keithp> just received 32 minutes ago
[14:19:12] <hwentlan> thanks samuelig
[14:19:18] <mfilion> same, received 30+ minutes ago
[14:20:19] <Lyude> alright, I think we can move on to the next item. I'll do this one because I just forgot this would probably be mine:
[14:20:41] <Lyude> X.org/freedesktop.org domain status - haven't heard anything new on this yet (unless any fdo folks here have, but I don't think I saw anything fly by in my email)
[14:20:42] <daniels> keithp: cloud policy on SMTP is: use SendGrid
[14:20:45] <mfilion> wow do we receive an email each time someone applies?
[14:20:53] <mfilion> guess I need to setup a filter lol
[14:21:05] <keithp> mfilion: there aren't that many members, alas
[14:21:13] <daniels> (can confirm that bentiss has done absolute heroics to get us over to Packet and with a really well put-together stack which makes it really easy to manage and deploy new services!)
[14:21:13] <hwentlan> as admins, yes. we'll have to log in every once in a while to approve members
[14:21:21] <mfilion> ah ok!
[14:21:55] <Lyude> mdnavare: I think next is XDC2020 invoices status (do we also have anything to go over for XDC2021 invoices yet?)
[14:22:02] <keithp> daniels: the internet becomes four companies
[14:22:19] <danvet_> Lyude, still waiting for intel to confirm their sponsoring or not, before I can go hunt for more xdc21 sponsors
[14:23:04] <daniels> keithp: Packet have been really good to us and they might be open to helping us with our SMTP woes, but we also have unbelievable technical debt on that front - gabe is still running on i686, but luckily emersion has stepped up to help modernise our mail setup and hopefully increase delivery rate
[14:23:22] <keithp> i686? Seriously?
[14:23:36] <mdnavare> Lyude: the Intel PO is in the system, but not approved yet need to follow up on that after which Martin can send the invoice to Intel and get paid for XDC 2020
[14:23:43] <keithp> we haven't touched mailman for years though
[14:23:43] * tlwoerner remembers a time when companies were reluctant to join the Internet
[14:23:49] <Lyude> seems very fitting for mail purposes imho
[14:23:58] <daniels> ^
[14:24:00] <mfilion> danvet_ you can obviously count Collabora in for xdc21 ;)
[14:24:02] <Lyude> tlwoerner: yeah those were good times :(
[14:24:20] <danvet_> mfilion, awesome
[14:24:27] <Lyude> mdnavare: gotcha, anything else?
[14:24:48] <mfilion> We should ask Intel for prepayment for 2021 lol
[14:25:01] <anholt> seriously
[14:25:05] <Lyude> yeah, that might not be a bad idea tbh
[14:25:18] <mfilion> If they're going to take this long to pay, just pay both at the same time
[14:25:35] <samuelig> danvet_, you can count on Igalia as well.
[14:25:40] <samuelig> for XDC 2021.
[14:25:53] <samuelig> :)
[14:26:10] <mfilion> :D
[14:26:19] <mdnavare> nothing else from me but yea agree to get a prepayment
[14:26:19] * danvet_ loves competition :-)
[14:26:58] <mdnavare> Now that I entered the PO, already have some contacts from Intel finances so can push them better for 2021
[14:27:12] <danvet_> since they're organizer and this time around some real expensive it makes it easier imo with tallying up
[14:27:23] <danvet_> but next year I'm on board with just waiting until the money arrives
[14:27:30] <Lyude> mdnavare: gotcha, thanks for the update. 
[14:27:58] <Lyude> samuelig: do you want to go over XDC2022?
[14:28:09] <samuelig> and XDC 2021 :-P
[14:28:15] <samuelig> XDC 2021: mupuf is still working on the website container deployment (setup the containers, opening TCP ports, etc), and integrate sponsor box to the website as well. The plan is to have it in March. Once we have it, we can start with filling it and prepare the CfP.
[14:28:17] <mdnavare> Lyude: hwentlan: Since I am rerunning for the first time , what is the procedure for reelctions?
[14:28:38] <samuelig> XDC 2022: I have not started sending emails to potential XDC organizers yet (been very busy lately). I'll do it once I have some free time, hopefully next week.
[14:28:51] <mfilion> oh btw, regarding xdc in person or not
[14:29:00] <mfilion> LF cancelled OSSummit NA this week
[14:29:07] <mfilion> was supposed to be in August...
[14:29:10] <Lyude> mdnavare: I'm not sure actually - this is my first time rerunning as well :)
[14:29:33] <mfilion> and they cancelled it all together (not even doing virtual)
[14:29:41] <Lyude> !?
[14:29:50] <hwentlan> mdanavare, Lyude: the procedure is to nominate yourself again, or have someone nominate you
[14:29:51] <danvet_> mfilion, I think plan is hold it local+virtual
[14:29:52] <Lyude> did they give any reasoning for that?
[14:30:00] <hwentlan> with the blurb about yourself as usual
[14:30:15] <danvet_> I'm still somewhat positive that travelling within europe could be on the table in Sept
[14:30:16] <Lyude> hwentlan: gotcha, and we're in the nominations period now right?
[14:30:19] <tlwoerner> no, i heard directly from someone i know who works at LF that it's cancelled outright
[14:30:43] <hwentlan> not yet, nominations open on the 22nd
[14:30:44] <tlwoerner> in my case there's no ELC this year, it was supposed to be in Vancouver
[14:30:47] <Lyude> tlwoerner: gotcha
[14:30:47] <samuelig> mfilion: if you ask my opinion, I don't expect XDC to be in person this year either. Now that the vaccines' logistic is not that good, new types of covid and such, I think it is very uncertain to assume a in-person XDC. But we will discuss in a few months if it is hybrid or virtual-only
[14:30:51] <hwentlan> i want some time chasing more nominations
[14:31:13] <tlwoerner> they're still hoping to do an ELCE in Dublin in the northern hemisphere's Fall
[14:31:22] <Lyude> yeah... the other thing is the vaccine doesn't really stop you from transmitting it
[14:31:22] <mfilion> Lyude no idea but the Europe one in October will be a "Global" summit instead
[14:31:28] <mfilion> https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-north-america/
[14:31:29] <Lyude> ahhh, cool
[14:31:31] <mfilion> details there
[14:31:35] <Lyude> I suppose that makes sense
[14:31:53] <Lyude> tlwoerner: btw - that just leaves GSoC whenever you're ready
[14:32:22] <tlwoerner> thanks. I sent the email looking for mentors and help with updating the projects given the new contraints for GSoC 2021
[14:32:57] <tlwoerner> so far I've only heard back from one student, but no mentors so far
[14:33:15] <mfilion> oh speaking of which, I reached out to Outreachy too
[14:33:26] <mfilion> they emailed back but haven't had a chance to look yet, let me look now
[14:34:05] <samuelig> tlwoerner, regarding the student, maybe the student is interested on EVoC
[14:34:16] <samuelig> if there is a mentor, ofc
[14:34:40] <mfilion> haha wow, x.org was part of outreachy in the past
[14:34:43] <mfilion> had no idea
[14:34:46] <mfilion> https://www.outreachy.org/communities/cfp/xorg/
[14:34:55] <keithp> mfilion: it just took to much management time
[14:34:59] <keithp> we didn't have the cycles
[14:35:16] <danvet_> yeah, outreachy was quite a lot more overhead
[14:35:22] <danvet_> I think it still is
[14:36:00] <keithp> it amortizes across multiple participants, so if we wanted to run more than one slot, it would be less per-person
[14:36:04] <danvet_> I run about one mentorship on dri-devel under the kernel umbrella
[14:36:20] <keithp> there's also org-level admin
[14:36:38] <danvet_> the thing with outreachy is, you really need a structured application process on the project's side
[14:36:46] <danvet_> like ready-made tasks for applicants
[14:36:58] <mfilion> right that's what their email says
[14:37:03] <mfilion> I can forward
[14:37:05] <mfilion> to board@
[14:37:06] <danvet_> on the kernel that's done with drivers/staging patches and gregkh handling all the logistics
[14:37:16] <danvet_> so I only pick up applicants after that point even
[14:37:26] <mfilion> I just get the feeling Outreachy will be more interesting than GSoC going forward
[14:37:30] <mfilion> double the stipend
[14:37:44] <mfilion> should attract more interesting candidates
[14:37:47] <keithp> it's also very well managed upstream
[14:37:47] <danvet_> and the sad state of affairs is, we really don't have any kind of such tasklist to just get to know the contribution process
[14:38:25] <Lyude> yeah-I think it'd definitely be something worth looking into even with the overhead
[14:38:29] <danvet_> so we're imo missing a key step in making outreachy mentoring work, at the beginning :-(
[14:38:54] <danvet_> mfilion, yeah the candidates I've had thus far have been really good
[14:39:10] <mfilion> same, we've hired 3-4 in a row now
[14:39:26] <danvet_> also because competition in the kernel from other subsystems is kinda garbage wrt being friendly to new people
[14:39:35] <danvet_> so drm generally gets to pick the best because they want us
[14:39:47] <Lyude> iirc I think we're already past the deadlines we would have needed to make for outreachy, so maybe we could just start now with talking to various projects to see if they could think of stuff that needs to be done
[14:39:58] <danvet_> I think projects are still open
[14:40:01] <mfilion> march 1st
[14:40:02] <danvet_> they inverted
[14:40:06] <mfilion> for new orgs
[14:40:07] <Lyude> oh-didn't realize that
[14:40:11] <danvet_> like applicants come first and fill out the paperwork
[14:40:16] <danvet_> then they look for projects
[14:40:26] <mfilion> I forwarded the email they sent
[14:40:30] <danvet_> yeah it's new since 2-3 years or so
[14:41:02] <Lyude> oh - i almost forgot
[14:41:24] <Lyude> samuelig: did you mention the proposal we got for XDC from italy?
[14:41:38] <danvet_> mfilion, I think if you find mentor + project in mesa, we should give it a go
[14:41:56] <danvet_> kernel I'll just keep doing through linux, that way we get the internship slot sponsors :-)
[14:42:17] <danvet_> Lyude, we got those every few months, they're generally just trying to sell their location for money
[14:42:21] <Lyude> ...oh :(
[14:42:27] <Lyude> darn, italy would have been cool
[14:42:33] <samuelig> Lyude, I didn't sorry. I checked the email and I think it is more a venue ad than a real proposal
[14:42:56] <danvet_> Lyude, you should get more now as secretary, but I've also seen some fly by who somehow still had me on their address book!?
[14:43:24] <danvet_> also they start with dear Prof $name
[14:43:30] <Lyude> yeah i noticed that
[14:43:35] <mfilion> lol danvet_ I don't know mesa well enough to find a project & mentor
[14:43:38] <danvet_> so anything that starts like that is just sales pitch
[14:43:39] <Lyude> since when were you a professor :P
[14:43:44] <mfilion> what's the project we do with gsoc, is that mesa?
[14:43:45] <samuelig> something like, do you want to organize XDC in Italy? We have a great place for that!
[14:43:58] <danvet_> mfilion, you have a pile of mesa on your payroll?
[14:44:21] <danvet_> mfilion, whomever volunteers as mentor
[14:44:31] <danvet_> but most of the projects we've had were mesa in the past iirc
[14:44:42] <danvet_> if we exclude kernel, which is already covered wrt outreachy
[14:45:11] <mfilion> @daniels would know
[14:45:23] <Lyude> how much time do they give you with outreachy to do a project btw?
[14:45:40] <daniels> we can find some Mesa + Wayland volunteers
[14:46:04] <mfilion> if we can, then maybe we should skip gsoc and do outreachy instead
[14:46:32] <danvet_> 12 weeks iirc
[14:46:55] <danvet_> plus there's the application period, where you can adapt the plan to the intern
[14:47:16] <Lyude> oh dang, that opens up a lot of opportunities
[14:47:18] <danvet_> and iirc there's 1 month of community bonding time or whatever they call it in between to get set up for real
[14:47:25] <danvet_> like it's really well done
[14:47:41] <danvet_> they also send out weekly mails with excellent topics to discuss with your intern
[14:47:49] <danvet_> they = outreachy aka sage
[14:48:08] <danvet_> I mean both the org and sage themself
[14:48:37] <danvet_> so all that stuff around just the project task is done really well
[14:49:03] <danvet_> but you do need some really simple tasks for the application period
[14:49:26] <danvet_> so applicants can get to know the project and you them without tricky coding stuff getting much in the way
[14:50:53] <Lyude> btw - we're nearing 8:00 PM UTC so i think we can call the end of the meeting (feel free to keep discussing! I'm going to see if I can poke some of the projects I work on for ideas)
[14:51:03] <mfilion> this all sounds much more interesting than gsoc
[14:51:08] <mfilion> nice ok, thanks Lyude
[14:51:11] <Lyude> it does
[14:52:46] <danvet_> also what's really great if you have 2+ interns (maybe including kernel)
[14:52:54] <danvet_> since generally they run into all the same problems
[14:53:23] <danvet_> so that's also why mesa or dri-devel are good picks because there's lots of things going on all the time
[14:53:29] <danvet_> for that community feel
[14:54:22] <samuelig> hwentlan, I didn't get the renewal email... have you expired memberships before sending the renewal email to the members ML? In that case, that explains why I don't get it (or maybe the email server is lazy today).
[14:54:48] <samuelig> also, it is recommended to send the email to development mailing lists (mesa, drm, wayland...)
[14:55:27] <danvet_> hwentlan, yeah so once you've expired everyone they don't get members@ mail until they've renewed
[14:55:33] <mfilion> good idea to sent to the mailing lists too
[14:55:34] <danvet_> so you need to spam dev lists all the time
[14:55:53] <danvet_> if that's not yet on the election wiki page it really should be
[14:56:07] <hwentlan> i think that's what happened. i created the new membership period without realizing it would expire all members
[14:56:08] <daniels> danvet_: maybe the members@ list should contain old members for a grace period of 1-2mo?
[14:56:14] <hwentlan> is there a way to still get a list of all members?
[14:56:19] <hwentlan> all old members?
[14:56:20] <danvet_> and I got the application approval mail just now, so members@ still works
[14:56:32] <danvet_> daniels, maybe mupuf can make that happen?
[14:56:53] <mfilion> so hwentlan will you post to the mailing lists?
[14:56:59] <mfilion> I can tweet it out too
[14:57:23] <hwentlan> i'll resend it to all the important mailing lists
[14:57:47] <samuelig> hwentlan, you can use CfP announcements as example :-)
[14:58:20] <samuelig> as reference I mean, so you don't need to look for all the dev ml
[14:58:53] <daniels> danvet_: he sure can - the members@ membership is just what the members.x.o site tells us it is :P
[14:59:15] <mfilion> anyone have Alan's phone number off hand? trying to login to the twitter but asking me to confirm the phone number lol
[14:59:39] <daniels> hwentlan: btw re the packet email, myself & ben are happy to look over it and suggest any changes
[15:00:31] <mfilion> nvm found the number
[15:01:07] <mupuf> daniels: that can be done for sure
[15:01:57] <hwentlan> daniels: i'm confused, which packet email? i don't remember being involved with a packet email
[15:04:57] <mupuf> daniels, danvet: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorgfoundation/xorg_membership/-/issues/41
[15:06:34] <hwentlan> mupuf, would it be possible to leave both the old and new membership periods open until the elections committee closes the old membership period manually?
[15:07:04] <mupuf> hwentlan: sounds like a good idea. Mind adding that in the issue I created?
[15:09:42] <hwentlan> left my comment. thanks
[15:10:25] <daniels> hwentlan: oh sorry, I got streams crossed - thought you were talking about getting in touch with Packet, but you were talking about HDMI 2.1 I guess
[15:10:44] <mfilion> tweeted about renewal https://twitter.com/XOrgFoundation/status/1359957968473718797?s=20
[15:13:34] <mfilion> lol guess it worked, renewals coming in :)
[15:13:57] <mupuf> mfilion: it did ;)
[15:13:58] <hwentlan> daniels: yes, conversation interleaved a bit there
[15:16:00] <mfilion> mupuf :D
[15:41:53] <danvet_> mfilion, let me hit that retweet button

[16:32:38] [disconnected at Thu Feb 11 16:32:38 2021]